Federation Vs Empire debate

[SSJ Data]

First topic message reminder :

This is a cool program i found
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Science/Asteroids.html

by this calculator a full power phaser from the Enterprise D at optimal range could destroy an asteroid made of nickel iron with a diameter of 850 meter depending giving a Galaxy class star ship a firepower of 4.5 megatons

While one energy bolt from an ISD can destroy the same type of asteroid with a diameter of 591 meters that would take 1.5 megatons of energy

now just because an ISD's weapons are 2 1/3 that doesn’t mean the Empire is out of the fight I’ve calculated the total fire power of an ISD at somewhere around 42 megatons (28 TL's) where as a Galaxy class got about 36 megatons (8 phaser arrays)

heres the site with all my info http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWhi2.html

vote in poll to

and if you dispute me please offer evidence

[SSJ Data]

not really for
1) they don't need to fire on sub-kiloton laser carring fighters
2) they can fire multiple beams from one phaser arrays as seen in Conundrum

[Terminus]

On 1, Even those lasers in large numbers are dangerous and some would also carry warheads.

On 2, Yes but that number is still limited to only a few per array.

[SSJ Data]

lets say five

five times 16 is 80 thats an entire Star Destroyers fighter aresenal in just 4 burst (providing my 300 figuer is good)
or five times 20 is 160 thats only two

[Terminus]

But the star destroyer will put out 100s of shots, plus most SW ships also have anti-starfighter lasers.

[SSJ Data]

i thought we where talking about fighters
and OWELL so a SD puts out 200-300 shots in that time how many are going to hit? The empire can bearly hit a stationary target and how are they going to take out a target moving at over 1000 meters per second. "It's be like trying to hit a with a smaller bullet whilst wearing a blind whilst riding a horse" Scotty

[Terminus]

True, but then again facing the feds the Empire won't need anti-starfighter weaponry.

[SSJ Data]

unless ya no *insert plot from conoudrem her*

[agentaaa]

in my opinion, the empire will win because of the simple fact that they have hundreds of thousand of planets income across the entire galaxy. from wat i know, when the borg destroyed 40 ships, it was a heavy blow to the feds. that... would be a lost battle, but nothing too serious to the emps if they lost 40 star destroyers. its like the tank wars in WW2, the shermans were destroyed in one hit, they were so weak compared to german tanks, but easy production meant there were 6 shermans for every panzer. also, im not entirely sure this is accurate, as i read this an an EU book, but according to it, imperial star destroyers hold volcanic missiles, which can slag a planet. that... would prob destroy an asteroid.

[SSJ Data]

the reason it was a heavy blow was because they hadn't taken those kind of looses since the Romulan wars over 2 centurys before hand
The Empire has 25,000 ISD's while they could have more they quit simply don't need more.
And a fleet of 22 ships is a "Grand Armada" for the Empire while we have seen 200 or 300 for the feds. The Empire has 1,000,000 planets and 100 trillion persons.
Feds have a total ship count of about 10,000 and a planet count of just over 1,000 and a population of 4 trillion.

[agentaaa]

numbers vs. strength... but skill didn't work too well for the spartans, now did it?
that aside, i think they are fairly even matched... there would have to be a large factor on one side or another to ensure victory.

[SSJ Data]

Death Star / Transphasic torpedoes

[agentaaa]

unfortunately, they kinda balance out...my theory on that is, if the federatiuon finds fatal weaknesses in the death star( such as the reactor core) then using the transphasics, they might render them useless. however, if the empire finds either a way to counter the torps or make the death star move quick enough to get out of the way(which, admittedly, i think just about impossible) if neither of them find a weakness, i believe the two technologies will balance each other out.

[mr33mean]

But you also have to consider how much manuverable Federation ships are. In Star Wars the Star Destroyers never really could move. In several different places we see federation ships running circles round Borg cubes. With only turbo lasers i believe that the Federation could easily avoid and isolate Star Destroyers. And i remember seeing an episode of TNG where two rival factions of planets opened fire on the Enterprise with lasers. Commander Riker said they could fire all day at their NAVAGATIONAL shields without out doing any damage what so ever.

[SSJ Data]

about that
1 the Empire use an unknown weapon type (A plasma me thinks)
2 those where lasers on the scale of the laser we have today (Only Smaller)

[agentaaa]

well, we dont really SEE those star destroyers move that fast, but we never really get a good comparison, as the few times we see star destroyers, they are almost always trying to catch up to another ship, which goes as fast or close to as fast as they do. although they probably aren't as maneuverable as federation ships, they might be fairly agile. I mean, seriously, they really never have needed to evade attacks by other ships. they are star destroyers, they chew up the opposition.

[SSJ Data]

they only go 1/10th of a feds sub light

[Terminus]

I've read many EU books, and multiple star trek ones. And simply put the 'real' match up in my opinion would be the feds against Yuuzhan Vong. Who cares if they use transphasic torps, the vong use black holes to defend there ships.

And on earlier questions, in the star wars universe 'lasers' are actually plasma based weapons, and not lasers as in what was used in any star trek show. the closes to sw lasers being the plasma cannons of the enterprise area.

[SSJ Data]

One we are not counting the EU or any of the ST books

two the Turbo Lasers are more powerful than the ones in ENT buy a good margin (As I stated about 3/7th the strength of a full Phaser blast)

[agentaaa]

to be truthful, i do not know why we don't count EU books, but i accept it, and understand that they do tend to conflict with each other.

also, unless i am wrong, the debate is empire vs. federation. nothing else, OK.

in any case, another point for the empire is that they have been fighting for a lot longer against many different civilizations, so they have more experience in war(probably). they might have battle plans that work against the federation, while the federation probably don't deal with enemies like this often, and wouldn't be as prepared.

[SSJ Data]

Yes you are probably right
but i say on organization and logistics they are probable the same.

[agentaaa]

a point for feds, and against them, is that the appearance af a powerful new enemy would absolutely stun the denizens of the SW galaxy. this could have two effects.
1. rebellions all over the galaxy take this opportunity to try to overthrow their imperial suppressors, greatly weakening the empire
2. this might have the same effect that happens every time america gets a new enemy, and the citizens might stand behind the empire even firmer because of it, which would give the empire a larger amount of manpower, as well as a lot of connections they might not have otherwise.
both things might happen at various different locations as well, making different sections of the galaxy better or worse at fighting off enemy ships.

[SSJ Data]

The feds would try diplomacy first.
Really if we aren't counting the death star or transphaisic torps it could go either way.

[mr33mean]

Yes, but the federation also has far more allies then the empire. If they all worked together that could be a deciding factor.

[SSJ Data]

They are only allies with the Klingon
but still that one Allie could be more than enough considering it would push the feds ship count to over 20,000 making the Empires ship count advantage virtually useless

[agentaaa]

but if the empire attacked first, it would be able to make a devastating first strike on the federation before they had a chance to rally their troops(so to speak). also, we are forgetting about the other factions in play. both the cardassians and the romulans would try to expand their territory while the federation was at war, and might take over quite a few systems, weakening the federation.

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